The Interview
June 30, 1998

Beginning Ballet

Walker:
First, congratulations on your Gold Medal at the Jackson International Ballet Competition.

Thomas:
Thank you.

I know you have a background in martial arts. When did you begin ballet?

I started when I was 7. It was punishment for being rude and disrespectful in martial arts class. My dad, besides being a physician, was a martial arts teacher, and he threatened me by saying, "If you don't improve your behavior, I'm going to put you in a tutu." It petrified me.

I was always a hyperactive child — into sports, and into swimming, into gymnastics — and I said, nooo, dance is for girls, it's not for me.

But I didn't improve my behavior, and the next day there I was in ballet class — without the tutu of course.

It took me a couple of years to realize that dance helped my martial arts and martial arts helped my dance. They helped each other.

I still didn't start taking it seriously, though, until I was about 12.

Where were you when you began ballet classes?

In Saudi Arabia. My dad was a physician for the Royal Family. However, I started my intensive training when I was 9, at the Kirov Academy of Ballet [in Washington, D.C.].

Then you know Oleg Vinogradov? [Former artistic director of the Kirov Ballet, St. Petersburg and current artistic director of the D.C. Academy.]

Yes.

How do you get along with him?

He's not there too much. It's his wife that handles things.

Who was your teacher the last couple of years?

A man by the name of Anatoli Kucheruk.

He's very good.

Yes, he is, he is amazing. There was also Vladimir Djouloukhadze, Andrei Garbuz — and Rudolph Kharatian and Vladimir Kalesnikov — a whole bunch of people.

Do you have anything to tell kids who might be thinking of going to the D.C. Academy?

It's definitely one of the top schools in the world.

Are the students very restricted there?

Well, yeah. It has boarding facilities, and there's about 40 people who live there. It's like prison — but it's a nice prison.

When you say "like prison," what do you mean?

You have identification cards. Different colors, depending on your restriction level — whether you can go out with two people, one person, whatnot. It's in a bad neighborhood, so they're very careful.

Since Reverend Moon is a financial backer of the D.C. Academy, is there any religious influence or pressure on the students?

Not at all.

Nothing?

Not at all. Some of the staff are, uh, Moonies, but they never bother you with that.

When you say staff, you're not talking about the ballet teachers, are you?

No, the actual workers there.

What advice do you have for kids studying ballet, say the third or fourth year, 13 or 14 years old?

Work hard. The easy thing about ballet is that it's so square. You can see what you're doing wrong. It's a perfect art, so just be a perfectionist. Never accept anything less than your best. The proof is in the pudding — what you put in you get out. It's not about whether you have a good or bad body, it's about what you do with what you have.

There's a lot a talk about the "ballet body."

They say six-feet, two-inches, perfect shape. A few have it, but not many. Misha doesn't. Nureyev didn't. Nijinsky didn’t. So who's to say what the perfect body for ballet is?

How tall are you?

Five-nine-and-a-half — on my resume I say five-ten. I might be five-ten now, though. I haven't measured myself.

The current principal dancers at the Kirov are a variety of shapes and sizes.

It's what you do with what you have. It's good to see ballet as the foundation of dance, but what I would recommend to young dancers is to see everything — to see jazz, modern, lyrical, contemporary — and then to become familiar with every style — because if the body can do it, it's dance.

Movement is dance. There's a time and place for everything. And, of course, there must be classical, but choreographers nowadays want to say do this, do this — it can be anything — you have to be prepared. And ticket sales, you know, ticket sales aren't doing great with just Swan Lake.

Farukh Ruzimatov is a dancer without perfect gifts, but he has worked hard to emphasize his strengths and vastly improve his weaknesses.

He has presence.

They sure love him in Japan — and I understand they love you there, too.

Yes. But, of course, not like him.

Naturally, he's been around a little bit longer. But there are some things about your style that remind people of Ruzimatov — for example, the hot energy, the masculine strength.

Thank you. Mrs. Vinogradov has always compared my presence to Ruzimatov's.

You've performed at the Maryinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, haven't you?

Yes, I did a TV special there.

How did you get along with the Russians?

They were nice.

How did you like the raked stage of the Maryinsky as compared to flat floors.

I was lost, I was lost on it. They kept trying to give me tips, like "spot the top balcony," but nothing worked. I kept falling on my butt.

And you've toured with Maya Plisetskaya?

Yes!

What was that like?

Magical.

What's she like in person?

Oh, even when she's offstage, she's awesome. However, I also guested with Patrick Dupond the same year, and he was the complete opposite.

What do you mean, the complete opposite?

Well, Maya's kind and beautiful and generous.

Yes, I get the picture.

Then I got a chance to work with Tetsuya Kumakawa, who is just an amazing artist — probably one of the best dancers ever in the world of ballet — and he was really down to earth, too.

Have you bumped into Baryshnikov?

No, I haven't. But I got a call from his company to wish me the best of luck before I went to Jackson. And there was a message that he was sure we'd meet at sometime in the future.

Accident

Your father told me that you were in a bad jeep accident — your leg broken in five places, 2 broken ribs, a concussion. He said the doctors predicted you would never walk properly.

That was a little after my first birthday.

And you were in —

— in the Virgin Islands — and in intensive care. Afterwards, I guess as a precaution — or for quicker rehabilitation of the leg — my dad put me into all of these physical activities.

Did you like that?

I can't really remember. I started martial arts when I was 3.

I see.

There wasn't much I could do, but I was kicking and punching. Everything stemmed from there.

I guess it was lucky that your dad's a doctor.

My mom's a doctor, too.

She is?

She just became a doctor. She goes to Hawaii to do her residency program. She's not sure what she wants to specialize in? Either plastic surgery or dermatology.

You can pass it on from me that there are lots of plastic surgeons and very few good dermatologists.

Okay.

I believe that your mother and father are split up?

Yes.

How long has that been?

Since I was about 7.

What has that been like for you?

At 7 I didn't really know what was happening.

Did you blame anybody, or feel bad about it, or think it was your fault?

I literally didn't know what was happening. My mom just said, "I'm going away for awhile." She went to D.C., went to college, and now she's a doctor.

When I was 9 we were all back living in D.C., so I thought she had just taken a long vacation. I started at the Kirov Academy when it opened. I was living at school, not with either of my parents, and they both came to visit me. So, it really didn't phase me, because they kept a relationship for me. They love me that much.

What relationship do you have with your father now?

Ummm —

— I know he's your biggest fan and supporter.

You think so? I don't know. I don't know. We have a love and hate relationship. It's almost like Michael Jackson and Joe Jackson. It's hectic at times. But, he means well.

Inspirations

You seem to have a more mature approach to dance than your age might suggest. Where do you get the background context for your work and the inside feeling you have for dance.

I do everything based on my instincts. If you ask me what I'm doing or what I want, I really don't know — but there's something within me that tells me I'm doing the right thing at this moment in time.

With every step in my life, I try to make sure I'm going upward, not laterally. Sometimes I have to go backwards to take the next step forward, but I try to schedule and take part in actions that will give my life shape and substance.

So you see dance as a complete entity, as part of your life, that is guided by your instinct, or whatever power you might choose to call it?

Exactly. Gut feeling.

From where do you get inspiration when you dance?

Besides from within myself — by watching other talented dancers — by watching videotapes of Baryshnikov, Muhammad Ali, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Paul Robeson — all of them.

You see Muhammad Ali as a dancer?

Yes, yes. More or less. Yes, definitely. He does movement that is incorporated in his art.

I think all of the people you've mentioned have had an overriding vision that has guided their lives.

Yes, definitely, they're all as crazy as me.

How about music, does it inspire you?

It's my favorite pastime, yes. It relaxes me and feeds my soul. Also, poetry, reading good books. I'm reading Zen right now.

What is the greatest influence on your life?

Surrounding myself with good people.

Is there one specific person?

No, just interesting, thoughtful, people.

What's your favorite ballet?

The Nutcracker, that's one that everyone knows. And Le Sacre du Printemps — The Rite of Spring, by Kirk Peterson — I'd have to say that's my favorite so far. I enjoy dancing Prodigal Son a lot. And also, Don Quixote, Le Corsaire.

Do you have a favorite partner you've worked with?

Adrienne Canterna — she was my partner in Jackson — she received a gold medal, too.

Obligatory

I understand you're also a singer?

More or less. I like to write. It's one of my favorite pastimes.

Do you do the music — or just the lyrics?

The lyrics. I hear beats, I hear rhythms. Some of the stuff I can sing myself, but other stuff I just write.

Who are your friends? Do you have friends your age?

Yeah.

But where? You're always traveling?

Some of them are — actually, most of them are dancers. Mike Connolly, who's a tapper and right now is doing a show with Debbie Allen. Chris Erickson another tap dancer. Oscar Hawkins — he used to be a member of Dance Theater of Harlem. He also competed at Jackson.

Do you have a girlfriend?

Yes, I do.

Is it a secret who?

Her name is Anisha. I don't want to give her last name.

What city is she in — because I'm not even sure what city you're from these days.

She's in Virginia.

Then you must still be living in Washington, D.C.?

Yes.

Have you been out to Hollywood yet?

Yes, I was in Santa Monica with Debbie Allen last summer.

She's very nice. She reminds me of you in the sense that she's gotten a lot of criticism at different times.

Of course. There's not supposed to be this controversy, but that's what makes the world go 'round.

Rumors

Can I ask you a couple of obnoxious questions — about things I've heard, but don't know if I should believe or not.

Okay.

Did you punch out some guy at a competition a year or two ago?

I've never hit anybody, except in a martial arts class.

There was a rumor that you'd punched out a fellow competitor, not at Jackson, but at an earlier competition?

Paris?

I think so.

No, no, I haven't, though.

[Note: According to Ballerina X, the actual incident that spawned the rumor was an argument during a Hartford Ballet rehearsal, arising from a misunderstanding. Differences were quickly resolved.]

About the Hartford Ballet — are you the one who got kicked out? Did you cause a lot of problems there?

I did not get fired. My contract ended, and I merely left.

Did you have an ongoing battle with the administration?

Up until the last three performances, everything was smooth — but then I had shin splints, and I had to cancel performances, and that created a few problems.

Shin splints — There's a guy in Russia that has the same problem.

Andrei Batalov?

Yes, for the last four months he's been recovering.

And do you know a dancer named Joan Boada?

Yes.

Him, too.

A friend of Batalov's said that he kept jumping too much — wouldn't rest.

Yes. The floors are so hard, everywhere.

But those rumors about Hartford, they're not true. I guess they started because I'm not with Hartford, again.

That company seems to have fallen apart. One of the dancers from the Kirov was there, and he's gone back to Russia.

Pyotr, Pyotr got fired.

[Note: Pyotr Ostaltsov: He didn't have his contract renewed because he auditioned for another company (see below). In June he was in St. Petersburg.]

Boris got fired — a lot of dancers got fired, but a lot of others' contracts ended.

[Note: Boris Serebryakov: He made a comment that Kirk Peterson didn't like and was fired on the spot.]

I'm not sure who is still there — in Hartford.

We started with 27 dancers and ended with about 10. And Kirk fired a lot of those, but not all 17. Some of them were let go on principle — people who auditioned for another company while under contract were fired at the end of their contracts.

I didn't audition for anyone, but I signed only a one-year contract with Hartford Ballet. So if I wasn't sure whether I would get renewed with Hartford Ballet, and I went down to New York for an audition, or to PNB [Pacific Northwest Ballet] or to some other company and auditioned, and then, Kurt found out about it, my chance would be completely destroyed of getting a job with Hartford Ballet in the future.

A lot of dancers auditioned, because they only had year-long contracts, and there was no guarantee they would be kept the next year — so auditioning was a precaution that half the dancers took. A lot of dancers went down to New York the week or weekend of an audition.

I wanted to prepare for Jackson and didn't really need a job, so I didn't bother to audition. But after one of those times, when I came back, there was a huge group meeting. Kirk said, "If you are one of those people — I know who you are — who went down, your're not going to have employment in Hartford."

If you want to interpret that as being fired, okay. However, their contracts did end at the end of that year. Just because the contracts weren't renewed for another year doesn't really mean they got fired. Then there were some people like Boris who just got kicked out.

It sounds like Peterson operated the opposite of how he should have — rather than banning auditioning, he might have made his company attractive so people would want to work there if they had a choice.

Exactly. Right on.

Plans & Dreams

Your father ran down a list of things that are going on in your life now — everything from music videos with Debbie Allen, a contract with Steven Spielberg's DreamWorks, and more.

Yeah, a lot's happening, but I have shin splints right now, so I've just got to heal them — and weigh my options out — and see what I want to do. I don't know right now.

What are your plans for the next three months?

To heal, to get my health better — and find someone who can really manage my career and have my best interests at heart. Someone who knows where I'm coming from and has good connections — and knows the business about those connections.

Do you feel a lot of pressure?

Only from myself.

Do you want to make a career in classical ballet, or do you want to be a combination performer?

If I can negotiate a decent contract with one of the top companies, I would love to.

Love to what?

Be a member.

Of a ballet company?

Yes.

Is that your first interest?

Right now, no, it's not. But I don't know, because a lot — I don't know. There are three things I could do almost. I'm not sure which route I want to take.

What are those three?

One of them is the Hollywood, commercial approach.

A balletic Gene Kelly?

Another is just trying to build my name quickly as a dancer, by going to ABT [American Ballet Theatre] or something like that.

Okay.

And the most artistic thing I could do is probably go to the Bolshoi Ballet.

So, those three — there's the artistic, there's working in dance here, and there's the commercial approach.

Is money a concern? It sounds like that's not your first priority.

As long as I have a place to eat and a bed.

Of all the performing arts, which most interests you?

Dance. Dance as a whole, though. Anything that incorporates movement, period. This includes martial arts and many things.

What's your hunch? Are you going to be in Hollywood, in New York, in —

— If the stuff works out with Debbie and whatnot, I think I'm going to be in Hollywood, but let's say if a movie is picked up, it's not going to be for awhile, and they probably won't start pre-production until next year sometime — and that would give me a little time, hopefully to go over to Moscow and work with Vladimir Vassiliev.

I sense you would like to do that.

I would love to do that. That's my dream of the most incredible thing that could happen to me.

Artistic concerns are certainly not the primary driving force in movies. More than ever it seems that money is all that matters, with box office sales reported like they were important news.

What movie had the biggest weekend — exactly — which is not what I want to do.

I don't know. I want to do a lot of things. I don't think there has really been a leader in dance — not that I want to be it — but any direction in dance after Baryshnikov.

Yes, I agree.

Especially an American.

There have been some good dancers, but no one who changed the landscape.

Directed the art. After Baryshnikov there have been Carlos Acosta, Vladimir Molokhov, Angel Corella, Andrei Batalov. There have been a lot of amazing dancers, but not one who has stepped forward and said, "This is my vision, this is what I want to do, this is how I want to better the world."

Maybe in some way you can have an influence on dance the way Olga Korbut had on gymnastics.

Hopefully, yes.

Offer some leadership, even if everyone doesn't want to follow, and be an inspiration to kids who previously haven't considered dance.

Yes, to help bring the best out of everybody.

Before Jackson, if you had asked me what I wanted, I would have said that I wanted Jackson to go well. Before that I would have said I wanted to work with a company like Hartford Ballet, and I wanted to get good training.

But right now I can't think that far ahead, because so much is happening. It's almost as if I just have to live in the moment. I know in the long run they'll get me where I want to be.

But right now, timeout. I need to get organized and get my health back.

I guess you need to choose your staircase and then take one step at a time.

And I've got some ridiculously high staircases, I don't know which one to take. Like I've got so many job offers, I don't know which ones to do, and which ones not to do.

Some of the advice was to charge outrageous fees for guest performances, because it would knock out half of them right there, because half of them wouldn't be able to afford the price.

But that's not very logical, because it ignores what's most artistic. Then, if I tried it — charged $25,000 per show — maybe I'd only have two engagements per year.

Some people take that approach.

For me, right now, that's not the right approach. But it's one of the ways to cut back on.

I have always thought that the hardest thing for someone who is talented and intelligent — someone who can do just about anything — is to make definite choices, then follow through.

Right now the idea of doing a film is just imagination — it's a dream. But I've always wanted to integrate my art. I feel I can give more to people with film — and more people could appreciate what I'm doing.

However, there's nothing like the one-on-one interaction with an audience when onstage — yet people all over the world could understand what I'm trying to do with my art if I took a more commercial approach.

After doing maybe one film, I have to be honest with myself about how much of the film is carried by my talent and acting ability, and how of the film is just action movie. I want to know if people will enjoy my acting.

I don't want to be known as a good entertainer, a good action hero, without acting. I feel acting is like ballet — if you can master the foundation, if you can do Shakespeare and theater, then you can do any form of acting.

I have said I would consider going to Yale, or somewhere that has a very good drama department.

For acting there are a lot of different options. A lot of the people who come from other disciplines and go into acting study with a private teacher, be it in New York or Los Angeles.

I like the New York approach.

I think things go best for people who just relax and remember who they really are — remember that in the long run, nobody is astoundingly special. I think the luckiest people are the ones who can stay down-to-earth in their self-perceptions.

I'm the same person today that I was yesterday and the day before yesterday.

I've noticed that the happiest performers are those who maintain the feeling that they are lucky to have the gifts they have, and then share these gifts with others.

I swear, that's what artists enjoy most out of life — giving love and receiving love. The most important thing for true artists who are really real, is love. Love is the answer for everything. That's what it's about.

Great. Let's end there.

Perfect.

Final Comments

Not long after this interview, Rasta competed in the Dance Masters of America competition. He took second place. In the grand tradition of these subcultures, he was the target of a behind-the-scenes mini-conspiracy to keep him from winning.

Realizing the end had come, Rasta Thomas formally retired from contests. His gifts are formidable enough to make him unwanted amongst the peers he has grown up with.

A life-long competitor — as the victum of a crippling accident, as a karate combatant, as a masculine prodigy in the prissy and malevolent world of ballet — now he will face some real challenges.

He must make the transition from amazing kid to adult star, a step that has shattered many. And if he goes to Hollywood, he'll be cut bait drifting past sharks. And since he wants to dance for the masses, he'll have to find an audience that doesn't yet.exist.

So — he's not even suppose to be able to walk. The rest should be easy.

Back to Part 1 — Introduction